Five Ft. Three

“A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.” ― Milton Friedman

I think I have blogged this before, but never got a good answer if I did

on May 7, 2012

People die of either natural or unnatural causes.  Abortion is not natural, obviously, so it is unnatural.  Accidental deaths are unnatural, but abortion is not accidental, it is done very much on purpose, and it certainly isn’t suicide.

So, for those who call it murder, I happen to think they are on the right track.  But shouldn’t abortion really be called a holocaust?  Because isn’t a holocaust when lots of people are systematically killed because they are considered unwanted?

If anyone can explain how abortion they categorize abortion as anything but a holocaust, I would like to hear it.


18 responses to “I think I have blogged this before, but never got a good answer if I did

  1. I think holocaust is being a bit sensationalist. I attribute the word holocaust to genocide of a particular group of people; such as with the Jewish People. Plus, historically the word is also associated with fire and burning which really is not about abortion but about cleansing. I believe this goes beyond the “unwanted” categorization you mentioned.

    Not to belittle abortion, but I am comfortable with calling it murder.

  2. David Miller says:

    While your definition of Holocaust may be accurate, for it to apply to abortion, people would have to accept that at the moment of connection between sperm and egg, we have a person.

    At such an early point, the majority of people think not.

    Some prefer to use the term genocide, maybe that is more accurate, the above qualifier notwithstanding.

  3. Beth says:

    Methinks I have hit on a nerve here because you all realize that abortion is as bad a thing as a holocaust and so you are trying to minimize the horror of it.

  4. Z-man says:

    You know I read a book a long long time ago and if you can get it at your local library Beth it’s a great read. It’s called Rachel Weeping by James Tunstead Burtchaell and he goes into great analysis on some of these things and he agrees with you Beth. It’s been awhile since I read this but what struck me was this was not some frothing-at-the-mouth rabidly right-wing book just a reasoned and in-depth analysis by an intellectual and I think he was at Notre Dame, a Rev. Back in the day I used to read far more than I do now but some things just stick in your head.

  5. BB-Idaho says:

    Well, when you say “Methinks I have hit on a nerve here” I recall a year or two back when I
    upset you terribly, and no use covering that ground, right? But you should be cheered a bit because the government
    is stepping up anti-abortion pressure. (same gov, you think interferes in YOUR live too much)
    The topic never fails to bring out the anger in us….and never changes anyone’s mind….

    • Beth says:

      Excuse me, BB, but the government stepping in to save lives by not allowing abortions is I believe part of their Constitutional duties. Tell us what cars to drive and what damn light bulbs to use is NOT.

  6. Beth says:

    Are you only pro-choice when it comes to mothers killing their babies, BB?

  7. BB-Idaho says:

    Mothers killing babies? It happens and it is illegal. Equating a zygote to a baby is not addressed in the constitution. As for your choice of lightbulbs, I respect that…being an old traditionalist, I
    have no use for kindle, cellphones, I-pads..but goldarn, I’m not for banning them. (and yes, I
    drive a big ol gas-guzzling truck.) Who am I to tell a desperate pregnant woman what to do
    or not do? (Or an incandescent person what sort of light to use?)

  8. Z-man says:

    Well BB you’re right that the word “zygote” is not exactly in the Constitution but many years back the same Congress held hearings on the scientific question of when human life begins and the answer came back emphatically at conception and Dr. Jerome Lejeune the founder of the chromosome that causes Down’s Syndrome was one of these. I think the choicers never want to address or resolve the issue of when life begins because it…complicates things.

  9. Beth says:

    Except it IS in the Constitution, it specifically mentions ourselves and our posterity, if the unborn isn’t our posterity, who is? And just wondering when you think the magical moment that the unborn in the womb can be considered a person, or does it have to be on the outside to count as one?

  10. BB-Idaho says:

    It IS the preamble:
    ‘ We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.’ ..the preamble states the purpose of the contitution. It is not constituional law, it explains the ‘ordaining’ and ‘establish’ing of the
    document. By your argument that fertilized eggs are posterity, you would argue that welfare
    is demanded by the constitution as well.
    Would the murderer of a child be forgiven under Catholic dogma? Of course not. What then of the termination of a pregnancy? Well….
    “I would now like to say a special word to women who have had an abortion. The Church is aware of the many factors which may have influenced your decision, and she does not doubt that in many cases it was a painful and even shattering decision. The wound in your heart may not yet have healed. Certainly what happened was and remains terribly wrong. But do not give in to discouragement and do not lose hope. Try rather to understand what happened and face it honestly. If you have not already done so, give yourselves over with humility and trust to repentance. The Father of mercies is ready to give you his forgiveness and his peace in the Sacrament of Reconciliation.” -Evangelicum Vitae

  11. Beth says:

    Not sure where you are going with your line of thinking BB, but the Constitution has nothing to do with the government handing out free stuff nor telling us what products to buy. Furthermore, forgiveness does not mean that the wrongdoing isn’t a sin in the first place. But my views on the killing of the unborn isn’t even because of my Catholic upbringing as much as I see it a gross violation of the rights of the unborn, WHO cannot speak for themselves and thus need people such as myself and other pro-lifers to be their advocates.

  12. Z-man says:

    Most pro-choicers vastly prefer to discuss zygotes and blastulas and such rather than the reality of the situation which is by the time most women find out they’re pregnant a little time’s already elapsed. There may be a little beating heart by now, brain waves in many cases, tiny fingers and toes and a rib cage etc. etc. Don’t mean to bore you with fetal development just sayin’ OK so you have the intercourse, time goes by, you’re working and you’re not feeling that well etc. etc. (that there may be a couple or a few weeks probably). You go to CVS or Walgreen’s and get the pregnancy test……BB the zygote doesn’t seem terribly relevant here IMO.

  13. BB-Idaho says:

    Z-Man “BB the zygote doesn’t seem terribly relevant here IMO.” I would think not…unless
    you think of it as a person….

  14. Beth says:

    I think Z-man’s point is that by the time the mother knows she’s pregnant, she’s well beyond the zygote phase of the pregnancy. Plus, you still haven’t answered the question, when does the unborn child magically become a person in your opinion?

  15. Z-man says:

    That was my point Beth. I think we all know the answer though deep down. Choicers really never answer the question though when does the fetus become a person? it’s a fair question and mine is more logical. Instead of finding arbitrary points on the gestational timeframe, one person says 16 weeks, another says 20 or 24 weeks, somebody else says when the heart first starts to beat or the first brainwaves, philosophically speaking and I also see this in mathematical terms the most logical point is conception. In other words you did not come from a zygote, you once were that zygote.

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